Recap #cclivechat April 29, 2011. We started off today by thanking DCC’s collaborators and webmaster for their time, for sharing their knowledge, and for caring about decade old cases.
The first case we discussed was the Holly Bobo case. Joe has a post on his blog about her case and of course, the case can be found in the media since it is ongoing. Nobody has been ruled out as a suspect so far. Joe is following the case closely so check his blog for updates and insights.
Richard offered insight in finger printing and especially the lifting of prints. There are differences worldwide in operating practices but the method is very universal. Operating practices may differ per continent but alas, also between agencies within the same country.
We mentioned the case of “the Boy in the Box” (scroll down). Lifting prints from skin is almost always impossible due to flaking and distortion of the skin. Hal also hinted at that in another case, see here.
Richard gave us the link to the most famous case about lifting prints from skin, see here. “The Miami-Dade Police Department in Miami, Florida, had positive results in five cases involving physical assault or homicide. One of them, in 1978, produced the first known identification of prints from human skin that resulted in a first-degree murder conviction.”
A quote from the conclusion: “Success has been achieved in the recovery of prints from skin when the body has been placed in an optimum environmental setting after exposure to unfavorable environmental conditions and allowed to acclimate to the improved surroundings. Some of the untoward conditions to which bodies were exposed (and from which prints were recovered) included extreme heat, extreme cold (freezing), and submersion in water. The bottom line is that success is possible as long as the skin is intact and the temperatures and humidity are in the correct ranges.”
Richard also answered the question whether it would be possible to lift a print from the parts of the skin from “the Boy in the Box” that were rubbed with petroleum jelly. Unfortunately, he did not see that as a possibility however, re-examining the box for petroleum jelly smudges might show a print! Richard has a new guest post coming up so stay tuned for that.
The verbatim recap of this cold case chat is below.
Vidocq_CC | It is noon so we open the chat by saying: Happy Friday! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:00:16 |
Vidocq_CC | I'd like to thank everyone who has been busy behind the scenes. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:00:37 |
Vidocq_CC | Thank you to Hal brown, from the Delaware Chief medical Examiner's Office for taking time to answer questions on DCC #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:01:07 |
Vidocq_CC | Thank you UK connections: @lilaclounge and @Trickycase for examining, exploring and researching issues that come up on DCC! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:01:55 |
Vidocq_CC | A HUGE thank you to my tech man who is NOT on Twitter: Jacques Soudan aka Clouseau, for keeping DCC running! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:02:25 |
TrickyCase | Is on my Blackberry for #cclivechat as my laptop is taking its time to configure windows updates :s | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:02:28 |
Vidocq_CC | An even bigger THANK YOU to my partner in crime, @coldcasesquad for taking the plunge and starting working with me! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:02:59 |
LilacLounge | Happy Friday to you @Vidocq_CC and @ColdCaseSquad Looking forward to another in depth hour of cold case chat #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:03:09 |
Vidocq_CC | Last, to @pennstateCSI who gracefully accepted that I booked his summer full with crime scenes I need analyzed! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:03:33 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Hi Richard! Thanks for tuning in! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:04:00 |
ColdCaseSquad | Happy Friday to all, and welcome to #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:04:02 |
Vidocq_CC | Hi Sue, good to see you again! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:04:14 |
ColdCaseSquad | Don't make me blush @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:04:31 |
ColdCaseSquad | Hi @LilacLounge & @TrickyCase #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:05:15 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad LOL! I mean it, Joe, thanks! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:05:29 |
ColdCaseSquad | Let's jump in, #HollyBobo has got to be the most talked about case in the USA right now #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:06:34 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Congrats on a well hit post, Joe! What's the latest? #holly #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:07:01 |
TrickyCase | Hi @Vidocq_CC @LilacLounge @ColdCaseSquad.. is now on #cclivechat via tweetdeck on laptop | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:07:37 |
ColdCaseSquad | The TBI has ruled out NO one as a suspect -including the family members - i.e. the brother #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:07:38 |
ColdCaseSquad | The storms have halted the search #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:08:21 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Anything known about motives? I am not up to speed with the case yet. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:08:45 |
ColdCaseSquad | How many people do you know that are taken against their will and "walk in the woods" with their abductor? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:09:17 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Looking forward to get more information re fingerprints taken from the eye re post Hal Brown #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:09:44 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Who came up with that phrase? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:10:02 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad is this decision thought to be a result of the statement analysis discussed in your post? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:10:05 |
ColdCaseSquad | No motives have been discussed, but most people are killed by someone they know and arguments are where it stems from #Bobo #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:10:21 |
ColdCaseSquad | Hi Sue, yes it is-and to think the police did not lock him down into a statement by having him write it down #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:12:04 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase ok, if you find anything and if you'd like, blog about it? It is a very popular topic on DCC right now! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:12:50 |
ColdCaseSquad | @Vidocq_CC all of https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com is popular #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:13:53 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad elaborate on the brother for me, please? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:13:55 |
TrickyCase | With hype around #royalwedding I cannot help thinking about all the cold cases involving British monarchy / aristocracy #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:14:20 |
ColdCaseSquad | Let me ask you Sue, if your sister was being "led" into the woods, how would you describe it? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:14:42 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | @ColdCaseSquad What advisements if any must be given to ask for written statements? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:14:49 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Good point! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:14:59 |
ColdCaseSquad | @TrickyCase there is a wedding in England??? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:15:05 |
Vidocq_CC | Hi Tanya! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:15:16 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC I certainly will, Ihave been thinking about my next blog topic #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:15:17 |
ColdCaseSquad | Hi Tanya - none to a witness or victim #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:15:24 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad LOL, you bad! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:15:51 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | @ColdCaseSquad Is recording the same? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:16:37 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad well use of the word 'led' suggests to me a person being shown the way but not necessarily against their will... #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:16:50 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Great, and you have the floor. No limits to posts, no deadlines either! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:17:26 |
ColdCaseSquad | Yes, no Miranda or anything from victims or witnesses-that is why looking up old police records are important #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:18:04 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad is 'led' a word that has been specifically used? I, like @Vidoqc_CC am not fully up to speed on this case yet. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:18:32 |
ColdCaseSquad | Yep @LilacLounge I don't know of too many people that will go quietly into the woods-unless they know them-or its a total lie #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:19:28 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | Her brother was home at the time? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:19:37 |
ColdCaseSquad | Yes-the words "led" and "walked into the woods" have been used-after the story changed from "dragged"-total mess #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:20:26 |
ColdCaseSquad | @TanyaGoodwinDoc and the mother apparently #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:20:48 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad @LilacLounge Agreed on being led, only by ppl you'd feel comfortable with #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:20:59 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad Agreed. that sounds a reasonable assumption to me. 'Dragged' is a much more emotive word. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:21:24 |
Vidocq_CC | @LilacLounge @ColdCaseSquad but "led" is too lenient #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:22:04 |
ColdCaseSquad | If someone you didn't know grabbed you, would a witness say that Sue @LilacLounge was led into the woods? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:22:29 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | I don't think one would scream if being "led". #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:22:56 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad @LilacLounge No way! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:23:00 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad @Vidocq_CC no I wouldn't think so. 'Led' implies compliance with the situation. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:23:42 |
Vidocq_CC | We are discussing the #HollyBobo case and more! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:24:17 |
Vidocq_CC | @LilacLounge @ColdCaseSquad @Vidocq_CC Agreed on compliance #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:25:03 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @ColdCaseSquad These are statements that can unravel mystery behind #HollyBobo disappearance&why I wrote post bit.ly/eolZnc #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:25:30 |
ColdCaseSquad | @Vidoc_CC tell us about what Hal is helping you with #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:27:47 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase I'd also like to know more about finger printing methods worldwide. Any difference? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:27:53 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | Who exactly saw this guy in camouflage appear in carport? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:27:56 |
ColdCaseSquad | @TanyaGoodwinDoc the brother #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:28:35 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase And what are the possibilities of getting a good print from skin that has been affected by rashes? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:28:43 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Hal is answering questions about postmortem and autopsies and will be educating us on both in series of posts #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:29:24 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | @ColdCaseSquad Did he happen to be looking out window? Why didn't he chase? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:29:40 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad He will be indicating what is and is not anymore possible in cold cases, exhumed victims, etc. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:29:51 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad He will also give his opinion on sustained injuries and what could have caused specific victim injuries #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:30:27 |
ColdCaseSquad | Tanya you are getting good at this #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:30:31 |
LilacLounge | @Vidocq_CC @ColdCaseSquad Hal's posts have been fascinating reading so far! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:30:52 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | @ColdCaseSquad If it were my sister.... #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:31:12 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Hal will also highlight cases that could use some more media attention #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:31:30 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat Theres little difference on the methodology of #fingerprint exams worldwide but there are in operating practices | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:31:48 |
ColdCaseSquad | @LilacLounge I know I was very intrigued and caused me to comment too! I'm learning from @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:32:18 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat I have been researching verification procedures as part of a work project. I will blog when complete | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:32:43 |
ColdCaseSquad | I know what you mean Tanya, a little odd to me. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:33:00 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Very interesting! Any continental differences? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:33:18 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase YES! Fantastic news! Thanks, Richard! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:34:05 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat Its very difficult to obtain prints from skin.. rashes, especially the likes of eczema would make it impossible | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:34:44 |
LilacLounge | @ColdCaseSquad I think we are all learning from @Vidocq_CC!! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:35:12 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat There are continental differences... but also considerable differences between agencies in the same country :s | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:35:43 |
Vidocq_CC | @LilacLounge @ColdCaseSquad Thanks to people who are willing to share their knowledge! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:36:11 |
ColdCaseSquad | @TrickyCase I have never witnessed a lift from skin-only on CSI Miami, Las Vegas, NY and Walla Walla #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:36:26 |
LilacLounge | @TrickyCase Is that because the surface of the skin becomes distorted or flakes off more than usual with rashes/eczema? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:37:19 |
TrickyCase | #cclivechat Hopefully #forensic examination of the lunch box in the #hollybobo case will be fruitful | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:37:30 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @TrickyCase #cclivechat little difference on methodology of #fingerprint exams worldwide but there are in operating practices #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:37:51 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @TrickyCase: #cclivechat Hopefully #forensic examination of the lunch box in the #hollybobo case will be fruitful #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:38:07 |
ColdCaseSquad | @TrickyCase the way it is looking I hope they find something other than lunch #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:38:14 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @TrickyCase: @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat There are continental differences... but also considerable differences between agencies in the same country :s | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:39:08 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @TrickyCase: @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat Its very difficult to obtain prints from skin.. rashes, especially the likes of eczema would make it impossible | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:39:16 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | @ColdCaseSquad How good is the yield by "super-glue" tenting, both bodies and objects? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:40:09 |
Vidocq_CC | What's the buzz from the websleuth forums re #hollybobo? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:40:14 |
TrickyCase | RT @TrickyCase: @ColdCaseSquad The most famous case involving lifting prints from skin was in Florida http://bit.ly/kaRRdj #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:40:25 |
Vidocq_CC | RT @TrickyCase The most famous case involving lifting prints from skin was in Florida http://bit.ly/kaRRdj #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:40:56 |
TrickyCase | @TanyaGoodwinDoc #cclivechat Superglue tenting bodies would yield little and is likely to be frowned upon by UK coroners / pathologists | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:43:30 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase A case that involves eczema is the Boy in the Box: https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/sum-it-up/week-15-sum-it-up #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:45:43 |
Vidocq_CC | @miriamsaid gave interesting take on case of the Boy in the Box: https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/sum-it-up/week-15-sum-it-up #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:46:16 |
Vidocq_CC | Glad to see Twitter holds up today! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:48:44 |
Vidocq_CC | If you have time, pls check the posts about Laura Henderson-Ibach https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/?s=laura+henderson-ibach #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:49:59 |
Vidocq_CC | Could use some insight there as well and the PI on the case is commenting on DCC as well. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:50:27 |
Vidocq_CC | Link broke off, I meant: https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/?s=laura+henderson-ibach #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:51:01 |
ColdCaseSquad | I have to run - send u an DM later V-have a great weekend all #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:52:40 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC What would you want to acheive... The fingerprints of the boy?... or fingerprints of accused from the boys skin? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:53:05 |
Vidocq_CC | @ColdCaseSquad Thanks, later! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:53:13 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase The latter, curious whether a print on skin rubbed with petroleum jelly would show after so many years #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:53:52 |
Vidocq_CC | We have 5 minutes left, anything you wish to discuss for next week? Something to digg into aside from #hollybobo? #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:56:05 |
TanyaGoodwinDoc | All interesting points to read up on. Dog wants out.! Gotta go. #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:56:24 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC #cclivechat No chance unfortunately 🙁 | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:56:40 |
Vidocq_CC | @TanyaGoodwinDoc OK, see you later, Tanya! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:56:51 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Dang! He had jelly on several spots, some over bruises, would have been terrific ... #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:57:31 |
LilacLounge | @Vidocq_CC Afraid I must dash now too! catch you all later 🙂 #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:58:54 |
Vidocq_CC | @LilacLounge See you and thanks! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:59:30 |
Vidocq_CC | It is 1pm and we cannot run into overtime this Friday ... have to be serious elsewhere! Recap later on DCC! Thanks to all! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:00:20 |
TrickyCase | @Vidocq_CC There is always the chance that the culprit left fingerprints in petroleum jelly on the box, but not off skin #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:00:37 |
TrickyCase | #cclivechat Must attend to children now. See you all next week! | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:01:04 |
Vidocq_CC | Thanks for participating @lilaclounge @trickycase @TanyaGoodwinDoc and @coldcasesquad ! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:01:25 |
Vidocq_CC | @TrickyCase Thanks Richard! Have a great weekend! #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:01:40 |
katcop13 | So sorry I missed out on #CCLivechat...I look forward to the recap by @Vidocq_CC...'til next time! | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:02:09 |
Vidocq_CC | Recap will be posted on DCC! You can find them all here: https://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/category/coldcaselivechatontwitter #cclivechat | Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:03:01 |